WEBVTT

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So, good afternoon, welcome.

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After lunch, I hope we are all set and ready for an adventure.

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I will be speaking Polish due to the fact that most of the presentation

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will be in Polish.

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So please turn all your devices if you need draw the pies for Vitam

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Sardarski.

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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome.

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After the lunch break, it is my pleasure to be moderating this

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session, and the session will be devoted to a variety of issues.

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Let us do transformation planning and design, and we will focus

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on those issues without which transformation would not be possible.

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Therefore, I believe that this session will be really interesting

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again.

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I'll be chairing it, and the speakers within it will be practitioners,

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theoreticians, mostly practitioners.

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And we will start with a presentation by Miss Monica Nadroska

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from the city of Bremen, and she will tell us about selected instruments

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of informal planning assumptions as exemplified by Bremen.

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Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

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Welcome.

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First and foremost, I would like to thank you for inviting me.

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Took dines to this conference I thought has crossed my mind.

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Actually, I have spent a few days here.

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I come from Silesia, southern Poland, and two years ago I went

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to Germany to study town planning.

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But now I'm returning to Nice to do that and I'm hugely impressed

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by what my colleagues are doing here.

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The subject of my presentation emerged as a result of a meeting

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that was held a few weeks ago in Bremen.

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Peter was and a place.

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Back then.

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We talked about different topics and he asked me to present different

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aspects of informal planning in Germany.

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That is of course, just a small section of the greater picture.

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I also give you some examples so as not to rely on theory only,

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and the theory is that those informal planning instruments

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in Germany are broadly applied.

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They are informal, so they're not legally binding, but they

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are actually taking into account in the Bow gazette 's book which

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is a construction code they applied at all the stages of spatial

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planning And they are commonly used as they make it possible

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to identify conflicts and problems and the stages preceding,

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for example, the development of a greater plan, for example

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a zoning plan that constitutes the constitutes part of the legal

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framework.

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These informal elements also accelerate the implementation

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of the development plan because we can, owing to them, include

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the stakeholders and inhabitants into the process.

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As for the methodology of the development of these instruments,

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that's quite a broad topic to discuss because there is a great

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variety here and these instruments and the methods of developing

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them keep emerging.

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I will show a few examples later on.

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How about the strengthening of these informal documents?

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How about finding a place for them in the construction code?

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Well, for example, the procedure of creation and adopting of

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a zoning plan envisages that informal studies, plans and concepts

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as adopted by the City have to be taken into account in the process

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of balancing interests within the procedure of creating a zoning

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plan.

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Those informal instruments are also applied in the processes

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of preparing and revitalization and here the construction

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code envisages two instruments.

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One is a so called preparatory analysis for bahaiden de ote zuhun

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and an integrated developmental concept Integrators handles

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concept As for the forms of these instruments or elaborations

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in their contents or they might differ across particular lands.

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But basically there are a few topics that prevail.

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There's also a third instrument that is deeply rooted in the

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construction code and this is the so called urban developmental

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concept whose goal is to intensify the development But this

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is an instrument that is new.

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It came about with an amendment adopted two years ago.

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So as a city, we do not have any experience applying it.

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If I cannot tell you much about that, informal planning instruments

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and procedures are usually subject to a resolution adopted

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by a City Council or communal council.

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It is an option, not an obligation, but actually I do not know

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of an example have an informal plan not having been adopted by

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a City Council or commune council.

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And actually the adoption of such an informal plan, strategy

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or whatever you call the document, results in the fact that it

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becomes binding for our public administration bodies.

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So for us, and it is taken into account for example, and administrative

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decisions are issued.

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This is for example the case in the areas that are to undergo revitalization.

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These informal spatial planning instruments are usually elaborated

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with the participation of inhabit and citizens, and they're

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supported by different forms of social participation.

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To begin with, let me tell you a few words about the areas of urban

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revitalization.

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This is quite an up to date plan showing such areas in the city

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of bremen and you can see that these revitalization areas cover

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quite a substantial portion of the city and there are pretty

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numerous they're also legally different from one another but

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that's a topic for a different presentation anyway this map

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shows you the scale of the application of these informal spatial

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planning instruments We have two elaborations here, envisaged

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by Power gazette 's books by the construction code that is the

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integrated development concept and the preparatory analysis

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These documents are created simultaneously and there are mutually

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complementary.

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They are to justify the needs to carry out a revitalization process

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in a given area, and they also show urban deficits there.

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The set of Bali she missed and is a notion that is part of the construction

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code.

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Let's see urban deficit.

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They also describe the goals, ways of financing, legal instruments,

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time framework and forms of social participation in the realization

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process.

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They define particular projects and tasks, also those on the

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other part of us as public administration, as those of other

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stakeholders, for example owner owners of properties.

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And they are prepared to draft further plans that are more detailed

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When adopted on these plans can be used as a green light for the

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commune to get access to the funding of revitalization funding

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as guaranteed by law or some other funding, for example from

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the EU sources.

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I'll show you an example here.

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This is our youngest revitalization area that is located in

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the northern part of the city, the blue mental revitalization

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area.

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And this slide shows you just a small section of the integrated

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developmental concept.

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And as you can see, it is quite an extensive area, that means object

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analysis and description.

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And within this area you can see a red marking of an area that is

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to become an area to be revitalized.

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And on the right hand side you can see what such an elaboration

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contains.

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Of course, as I said, the elaborations might differ, but these

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elements are translated for you and they are to be found in any

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such elaboration.

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So there is a definition of the area of analysis.

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There's an analysis of the current state.

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There are some conceptual basis.

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There is a list of projects and tasks and there is some draft pricing

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lists and also sources of financing envisage for the revitalization

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process.

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This is another example, example of the use of the other instruments

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of the preparatory analysis, and that's one of the many plans

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that you'll find in this celebration.

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And this is an example of a plan showing you the urban deficits

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in terms of the quality of the development.

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But there might be different sorts of urban deficits.

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And on the right hand side you can see a small sectional impressions

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of how public consultations were carried out within that project.

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This is an excerpt from the preparatory analysis.

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So from what in German is called for the Reiten der hunter Zorgen?

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And the last plan on the right hand side is the result of all the

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analysis and various concepts, as well as social consultations.

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I'm showing you this plan because as you can see it is inhabitant

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friendly.

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It is not a formal dry kind of a plan but a one that is easily

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comprehensible and on the left hand side.

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This is a version for us as public administration.

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This is a plan showing the areas that require further details

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planning and these are potential investment areas, project

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areas.

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So those that are of interest to us and as I say both these documents

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need to be adopted or in our case they have been adopted by the

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City Council.

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Now I'm going to move on to a really cool planning instrument,

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again an informal spatial planning instrument, the so called

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straighter polish rahman planning So a framework plan, and

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that is probably the most frequently used spatial planning

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instrument.

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There is no commune or town that wouldn't be using it.

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And that plan again is is mentioned in the provisions of the construction

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code.

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It is used in preparing an urban revitalization that belong

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to the tasks of a communal city.

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And this revitalization and campuses have been planned including

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spatial planning or framework plans.

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For example, decisions issued and the area of revitalization

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can be issued on the basis of such a framework plan.

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Such framework plans, as is the case with the other instruments,

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informal instruments, needs to be taken into account in the

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procedure of balancing the interests within the procedure

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of the zoning plan creation.

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And again this is mentioned in the construction code, the way

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of creating such a framework plan and is not subject to any regulations.

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So there is a lot of freedom here, and the methodology is actually

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continuously developing.

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It can be used for a quarter it can be used even at the level of the

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entire district or it can cover an entire town or city sometimes

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interchangeably You would use the notion of a master plan.

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So I'm showing you briefly the plan that professor writer might

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have shown.

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You at least mentioned the position that this is the biggest

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urban project in Bremen.

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This is a new district that it was, it is created in the area

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of the port and so a number of such plans have been created for

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that.

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And actually I heard the the notion of the master plan being used

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for such big areas.

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Well as this framework plan is mostly applied when planning

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of smaller areas like the the one exemplified on the previous

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slide.

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Now I'm going, my mistake, apologies as the speaker, I'm going

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to move on now.

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Sorry I made a mistake.

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OK So once again a bit more on the framework plan.

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It's a very simple example of the application of a framework

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plan for a quarter where there is an undeveloped under undeveloped

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allotment and a developer asked us to adjust the zoning plan

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And here you can see what kind of analysis were performed in order

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for this plan to be created.

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And an interesting thing is that the investor, an agreement

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with us, ordered the creation of this plan.

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What we were interested in here was first and foremost what kind

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of options are available to densify the development, what the

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maximum height of it should be, how dense it should be and what

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what options we have there as well as what ways of using

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of this area would make sense in this particular lot.

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And that was actually the plan that we Co developed with the investor.

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Three options were created, three different variants.

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It was pretty simple at presentation, but anyhow, resulting

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from our talks a single option was used and then later it formed

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the basis for concluding A preliminary agreement with the investor.

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Within this agreement we defined some other requirements and

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the city defines, for example, carrying out an urban competition

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for the development of this particular lot.

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We also justified the need to the jazz cement, the zoning plan.

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Here you can see the master plan that I mentioned a moment ago,

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this new Bremen district in the vicinity of the port.

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And this is another instrument that's a so called area strategy

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or territorial strategy that was created for the old town And

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that's a text document, but a very useful one.

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So it is a document in which text prevails, but there are also

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some plans included.

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However, they are really, really abstract and they're not binding

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at all.

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What they do is however, transmit the idea of what we would like

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to achieve in the coming years within the area of the Old Town,

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and I'm going to show you this.

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So that's something I came across for the first time.

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We've got the classical list of projects and tasks and also what

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is defined our priority.

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Arias and areas and projects in this graphic is again in citizen

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friendly.

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So our city planners were given a lot of freedom in creating it.

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Here again a snapshot of a participation process.

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We had a different idea on how to carry it out, but then the pandemic

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hit and we had to go online.

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Probably we were not the only ones, but that also increased our

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creativity and have the creative potential and also taught

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us a lot.

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And a few words on a different strategy, another informal spatial

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planning instrument.

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And that's a sectoral strategy that concerns the development

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of housing in Bremen.

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And that's just a small section because actually it involves

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many other elaborations.

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That's a central one.

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And for example, well, why is it that important?

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There's the adapted strategy defines A requirement for thirty

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percent of the area allocated to residential buildings in the

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projects for which a zoning plan is adopted to be allocated to

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social housing So every investor for whom such a plan is drafted

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needs to meet this requirement of the city, not only this one.

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But also which again you'll read in the strategy, the investor

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has to meet our requirements as to the size of the flat and it's,

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it's basic drawing and this is something that we discussed together

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with the investors and that leads to the conclusion of a contractor

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agreement with them.

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So that's just that in the natural unfortunately I need to, I

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need to go, I cannot participate in the discussion.

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So again thank you for having me.

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I'd like to thank you for all the talks that we've had throughout

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these days.

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And well, if there are any questions, please contact me via email

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Thank you very much.

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Thank you very much.

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Monica.

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I think that we can say that we all learn from each other.

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So all kinds of practice is an example of any kind of practice.

00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:10.360
Is is is a great lesson.

00:21:10.360 --> 00:21:12.440
So thank you for the the lesson from Brahman.

00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:21.040
And now we are going to move to Polish practices.

00:21:21.040 --> 00:21:24.200
So we'll have doctor Mikhail Jashowski, who will tell us about

00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:30.160
Uncle Divide practices in Polish spatial planning regarding

00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:31.680
the present and the future system.

00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:35.560
Perhaps I should call my paper What does it Look Like in Poland?

00:21:35.560 --> 00:21:37.840
Because it's exactly about the same thing about this informal

00:21:37.840 --> 00:21:39.720
part of managing planning.

00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:42.600
I have an alarm clock with me, so I'm going to watch that breaks

00:21:42.600 --> 00:21:48.800
down so I could avoid practices in Polish spatial planning at

00:21:48.800 --> 00:21:49.480
local level.

00:21:49.480 --> 00:21:52.440
I could add, because I'm going to talk about municipal local

00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:57.800
level, it's the paper is connected to a doctoral thesis which

00:21:57.800 --> 00:22:02.560
I have successfully defended not so long ago here at the University

00:22:02.560 --> 00:22:08.040
of Technology, and researching those informal mechanisms

00:22:09.640 --> 00:22:14.680
which control these informal unqualified processes.

00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:17.920
I'm not sure my promoter is in the in the room still with us I can

00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:18.120
see.

00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:24.960
But anyway, when I defended my thesis on the seventh of July,

00:22:25.120 --> 00:22:29.960
exactly at the moment when I was leaving the Polytechnic, the

00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:33.560
biggest change in legislation about spatial planning was passed

00:22:33.560 --> 00:22:34.800
by the Polish legislation.

00:22:35.600 --> 00:22:38.760
So when I was coming back to my home cities, it crossed my mind

00:22:38.760 --> 00:22:42.560
that my doctoral thesis is no longer is no longer valid.

00:22:43.480 --> 00:22:47.680
But after a few months later I I actually conclude that it's not

00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:52.280
quite the case, that the results of my study shed very interesting

00:22:52.280 --> 00:22:56.120
light at what might happen in Polish special planning in a few

00:22:56.120 --> 00:22:56.680
years.

00:22:57.280 --> 00:23:04.680
So the full picture of special management is made of both by

00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:09.240
what is described by legal instruments, regulations, etcetera

00:23:09.760 --> 00:23:14.080
and also some which don't stem directly from regulations, which

00:23:14.080 --> 00:23:16.880
are the topic of my presentation.

00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:20.440
And today we've heard about it a little bit, for example, these,

00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:24.920
these local spaces, they are connected for example with local

00:23:24.920 --> 00:23:25.320
plants.

00:23:25.320 --> 00:23:29.440
But in fact, I mean no, no regulations force us to do it.

00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:30.800
We just think we should do it.

00:23:30.800 --> 00:23:31.960
So it's helpful.

00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:35.800
So, So I think we know what we're talking about here.

00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:40.920
That topic is not presented comprehensively very often as part

00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:42.520
of the spatial planning systems.

00:23:43.080 --> 00:23:47.360
Usually everybody deals with their own little piece, even though

00:23:47.760 --> 00:23:53.280
it constitutes a large scale of a large part of what plans to do,

00:23:53.520 --> 00:23:54.720
of what planners do.

00:23:56.800 --> 00:24:01.600
These steps can be done before, during during social participation,

00:24:01.600 --> 00:24:04.240
for example additional study positions which is not required,

00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:09.400
and also after, because they implement, they help in implementing

00:24:09.560 --> 00:24:12.960
implementation of of plants into life.

00:24:13.600 --> 00:24:19.440
So here we could ask perhaps two very practical questions, first

00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:24.280
of all about the impact of these non codified informal practices

00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:27.840
on spatial planning, because it's part of a system even though

00:24:27.840 --> 00:24:29.720
it's not legally described.

00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:35.760
And about the sense of codifying some of these measures, whether

00:24:35.760 --> 00:24:39.880
it's actually worthwhile to put them into the regulations or

00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:43.320
perhaps it it's not worth it because then they are more flexible.

00:24:44.280 --> 00:24:46.120
Please don't be scared by this slide.

00:24:47.080 --> 00:24:51.000
I put it in to to simply to to tell you that I'm not going to talk

00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:51.440
about it.

00:24:52.280 --> 00:24:56.360
And so I'm going to spur you all this methodological story about

00:24:56.360 --> 00:24:58.000
how the research was constructed.

00:24:58.800 --> 00:25:02.320
I'll just mention that when I speak about practical aspects,

00:25:02.320 --> 00:25:06.840
I mean these informal steps, measures, actions which don't

00:25:07.040 --> 00:25:10.120
stem from regulations, legislation etcetera.

00:25:10.560 --> 00:25:13.800
And when I talk about procedures, I'll talk about formal legislation

00:25:13.800 --> 00:25:15.400
and I'll also talk about processes.

00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:18.360
That's the background of what we deal with something we don't

00:25:18.360 --> 00:25:21.800
quite have an impact on just migration, climate change.

00:25:21.800 --> 00:25:29.080
We are rather reactive to these when we plan space use.

00:25:29.600 --> 00:25:35.560
Now moving on, I might also mention that one of the elements of

00:25:35.560 --> 00:25:42.600
my research was analysis of various practices cases carried

00:25:42.600 --> 00:25:43.120
out in Poland.

00:25:43.120 --> 00:25:47.640
An example from a small town in the Sudete mountains in Poland

00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:53.080
county, which decided to base their special planning on a document

00:25:53.080 --> 00:25:55.120
which is not required by law.

00:25:55.120 --> 00:25:58.680
It was analysis of the potential of the county and and now for

00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:03.520
a number of years, not looking at formal documents, instruments

00:26:03.520 --> 00:26:09.280
they'd rather lean on this informal document and carrying out

00:26:09.280 --> 00:26:13.800
their their special policy, that's their strategy, informal

00:26:13.800 --> 00:26:14.320
strategy.

00:26:14.760 --> 00:26:18.440
Of course, I've compared these measures, these steps.

00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:20.320
After all it was a research project.

00:26:20.840 --> 00:26:26.240
However the the essence of the research were individual interviews

00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:32.240
with the main actors, just the decision makers, very often politicians

00:26:33.520 --> 00:26:40.960
and practitioners, urban planners who implement these measures.

00:26:42.320 --> 00:26:47.000
These interviews dealt with experiences of hundred various

00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:51.920
towns, smaller, bigger in various places of various functional

00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:53.080
spatial structure.

00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:54.280
So.

00:26:56.360 --> 00:27:00.800
So I think you might find yourself reflected in those wherever

00:27:00.800 --> 00:27:08.000
you come from and the topics dealt with types of measures, their

00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:13.320
goals, their motifs, sources of knowledge, how to do it and the

00:27:13.320 --> 00:27:18.200
role of the of these main actors and practices, the effects,

00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:19.000
the evolution.

00:27:19.560 --> 00:27:25.960
And now I'm going to talk in more detail about some of the selected

00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:32.360
results from these areas while referring them to the amendments

00:27:32.520 --> 00:27:38.960
and and the legislation that this such a such a hot topic recently

00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:41.720
because we all are impacted by it in palette.

00:27:43.640 --> 00:27:45.360
This is the last of these scary slides.

00:27:45.360 --> 00:27:50.920
So let me just point out three elements here which deal with the

00:27:50.920 --> 00:27:53.240
types of these informal practices used in Poland.

00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:57.280
One interesting point is that these initiating practices which

00:27:57.280 --> 00:28:00.280
initiate formal planning documents, that is something that

00:28:00.280 --> 00:28:02.920
we do before we prepare the actual plans.

00:28:03.840 --> 00:28:08.080
Today quite often, more often than we might think, actually

00:28:08.080 --> 00:28:11.080
allow us not to change these form documents.

00:28:11.280 --> 00:28:16.680
So getting this additional knowledge make us go perhaps let's

00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:19.600
not touch it, because it might even get worse if we start formal

00:28:19.600 --> 00:28:20.080
changes.

00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:23.480
The second interesting conclusion is that it's small towns.

00:28:23.480 --> 00:28:29.080
These informal measures they deal, they are they accompany

00:28:29.080 --> 00:28:32.120
giving the conditions for construction and permit.

00:28:33.120 --> 00:28:38.520
And the third interesting point is that these practices they

00:28:38.520 --> 00:28:44.800
very often accompany or they very accompany legal cases or constitute

00:28:44.800 --> 00:28:50.960
a certain sort of race with legal cases which are aimed at negating

00:28:51.600 --> 00:28:52.480
planning decisions.

00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:53.800
Very often we have to do it.

00:28:53.800 --> 00:28:58.720
We we're in a race in a way to implement planning, planning decisions

00:28:58.720 --> 00:28:59.960
while it's still holding.

00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:04.880
Now, what are the goals of such practices?

00:29:05.360 --> 00:29:08.280
First of all, these determinants, the principles described

00:29:08.280 --> 00:29:13.080
in legislation that is special governance, sustainable development,

00:29:13.520 --> 00:29:17.520
they very often are not in line with them with the goals that stem

00:29:17.520 --> 00:29:19.000
from these informal practices.

00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:26.200
The second conclusion is that some of the respondents pointed

00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:29.640
to the fact that the goal is spatial order.

00:29:30.600 --> 00:29:34.800
But it's so abstract and it's not going to happen anyway because

00:29:34.800 --> 00:29:36.520
nobody really understands what it means.

00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:43.760
And during the implementation they concluded that there is

00:29:43.760 --> 00:29:48.720
simply not enough awareness of what is what is public special

00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:49.280
order.

00:29:51.560 --> 00:29:54.960
And the second conclusion is that they are used very instrumentally,

00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:58.160
These informal practices, for example, to simply push through

00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:04.520
a certain idea, an idea of a certain politician, or or to accelerate

00:30:04.600 --> 00:30:07.440
procedures without looking at other elements.

00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:13.080
It's another characteristic trait, somewhat negative I suppose,

00:30:13.080 --> 00:30:13.720
in nature.

00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:21.320
So here we could take a look at this new chapter of the new legislation,

00:30:21.320 --> 00:30:23.520
chapter one A about social participation.

00:30:23.520 --> 00:30:27.360
On one hand, it introduces a lot of new consulting tools, consultation

00:30:27.360 --> 00:30:27.800
tools.

00:30:28.560 --> 00:30:30.280
On the other hand, I think it will.

00:30:30.320 --> 00:30:35.600
We'll be able to marginalized them quite easily if a given local

00:30:35.600 --> 00:30:36.960
government doesn't want to do it.

00:30:37.120 --> 00:30:38.960
So they can be used instrumentally.

00:30:40.080 --> 00:30:44.320
And these Gray red markers indicate certain tension between

00:30:44.320 --> 00:30:46.960
these goals because very often they're contradictory.

00:30:47.480 --> 00:30:52.000
You can't, you know, support investors and support the special

00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:52.920
order very often.

00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:58.840
It depends what you choose and towards about the motives, what

00:30:58.840 --> 00:31:03.440
what motivates, what's the motivation in in taking these sort

00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:05.120
of steps.

00:31:05.240 --> 00:31:09.120
Generally speaking, political decision makers are aiming

00:31:09.120 --> 00:31:11.600
at specific effects, which is quite natural I suppose.

00:31:12.120 --> 00:31:15.280
However, urbanized professionals, they have this rather nominal

00:31:15.280 --> 00:31:19.480
approach to do it right because that's why they're hired by decision

00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:19.920
makers.

00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:21.080
That's also natural.

00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:25.760
And there is also another approach, motivational approach

00:31:25.760 --> 00:31:28.600
as I call it, that's such that being fully convinced that we are

00:31:28.600 --> 00:31:32.040
doing the right thing, that you know you simply should do something.

00:31:32.040 --> 00:31:35.440
This is very often connected with social participation.

00:31:35.440 --> 00:31:38.080
It's simply local commuters simply should be asked.

00:31:38.080 --> 00:31:39.000
It's the right thing to do.

00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:42.760
It's more characteristic for larger cities than for small ones,

00:31:42.840 --> 00:31:45.520
as I learned through the research.

00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:51.000
Sources of knowledge also an interesting topic, because these

00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:54.120
informantal step are not described by law, they're a facultative,

00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:57.680
so they need constant updating of knowledge.

00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:02.360
Now most times from that, Generally in Poland we based on our

00:32:02.360 --> 00:32:03.320
own experience, right?

00:32:03.320 --> 00:32:08.600
That dominates your own experience and all research methodologies

00:32:08.600 --> 00:32:09.840
that they use, they dominate.

00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:17.880
Second place is taken by experience of of of colleagues, of

00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:19.000
other members of the team.

00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:23.520
And here we have a certain loop created because if some of government

00:32:23.520 --> 00:32:27.960
want to use additional expert knowledge, so they hire practitioners

00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:31.680
who as they declare themselves have knowledge from from number

00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:33.040
of counties they've been working with.

00:32:33.040 --> 00:32:36.880
They for certain these bubbles of knowledge were created which

00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:37.840
are not that large.

00:32:38.360 --> 00:32:41.960
And this knowledge closes itself within a couple or a dozen or

00:32:41.960 --> 00:32:43.960
so counties.

00:32:44.360 --> 00:32:49.520
Even those from large cities said that they basically based

00:32:49.520 --> 00:32:53.080
on their own experience, the experience of their employees

00:32:53.080 --> 00:32:55.320
or maybe one or two counties.

00:32:55.320 --> 00:32:59.880
Now now what is the range of involvement of these main actors

00:32:59.880 --> 00:33:00.920
within these practices?

00:33:00.920 --> 00:33:02.160
Just a couple of interesting points.

00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:07.120
Generally speaking, decision makers are responsible for initiating

00:33:07.120 --> 00:33:07.880
these steps.

00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:12.280
However, much more doubt was raised when nobody really wanted

00:33:12.280 --> 00:33:16.200
to owe up to the to the last of all these elements, the methodology.

00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:18.920
Who is responsible for what, Especially evaluation, monitoring.

00:33:18.920 --> 00:33:19.600
Nobody wanted that.

00:33:20.800 --> 00:33:23.560
And the second interesting point to the practitioners, those

00:33:23.560 --> 00:33:26.000
who implement these practices, especially in large cities,

00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:30.440
they very often have a problem in pointing to the decision making

00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:31.040
center.

00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:36.800
They said that key decisions are made by and I quote someone upstairs,

00:33:37.120 --> 00:33:39.120
someone upstairs, someone up there.

00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:43.960
So it could be a system based problem because it's not quite seems

00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:46.000
it's not quite known who's responsible for what.

00:33:48.560 --> 00:33:51.680
Now here we got the time period of engagement.

00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:56.440
Here we could identify two one limited by an agreement by rules

00:33:56.440 --> 00:33:58.400
and the second that is constant.

00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:02.600
That usually applies to employees, urbanists who are hired

00:34:02.600 --> 00:34:07.240
from beginning to end and later they also play a supporting role

00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:08.800
in implementation part.

00:34:09.200 --> 00:34:13.720
And here we have a rather previous conclusions dealing with

00:34:14.120 --> 00:34:20.240
lack of payment for steps taken outside the ranch required by

00:34:20.240 --> 00:34:21.040
legislation.

00:34:22.120 --> 00:34:25.040
What it means that being involved in additional activities

00:34:25.040 --> 00:34:29.920
is based on the sense of responsibility of duty that it should.

00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:32.360
It's the right thing to do this or that, but they're not going

00:34:32.360 --> 00:34:33.160
to be paid for it.

00:34:33.160 --> 00:34:33.960
That's one thing.

00:34:34.600 --> 00:34:42.360
And the second reason here is the desire to get another order.

00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:45.600
You know, I'll do a little bit more than perhaps next time around

00:34:45.600 --> 00:34:47.000
the county will want to hire me.

00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:51.120
Which is dangerous in itself, because it might mean that what

00:34:51.120 --> 00:34:53.840
you're doing is simply not because it's needed, but simply you

00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:58.760
want to appeal to the you want the client to find your appealing.

00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:03.560
So it's interesting because what was informal until the twenty

00:35:03.560 --> 00:35:09.360
fourth of september when the new acts became legal now some of

00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:13.440
these tools became formal For example, diagnosis tool, which

00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:17.680
is much more build up social participation negotiations with

00:35:17.680 --> 00:35:20.480
investors as part of integrated investment plans.

00:35:20.920 --> 00:35:22.240
Most of you know about it.

00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:27.760
So you have a local plan plus negotiations with investors.

00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:30.160
That's a separate mode of preparing special planning.

00:35:30.160 --> 00:35:34.520
We have special policy strategy which was not there formally

00:35:34.520 --> 00:35:36.880
before and now it's required by law, by law.

00:35:37.520 --> 00:35:41.520
It's also quite possible that it's one of the reasons why we have

00:35:41.680 --> 00:35:44.800
higher prices of of planning reports.

00:35:45.680 --> 00:35:49.120
They really went up after the ACT was introduced.

00:35:49.720 --> 00:35:51.640
So prices became what realistic.

00:35:51.640 --> 00:35:54.600
So something what was done until now that wasn't paid for has changed.

00:35:54.600 --> 00:35:55.760
Now it is being paid for.

00:35:56.200 --> 00:35:58.800
Now responsibility for conducted practices.

00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:02.280
It was interesting, a simple vertical responsibility, who

00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:04.680
is responsible for what, who is the superior etcetera.

00:36:04.680 --> 00:36:07.920
And then defining the client.

00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:15.720
Usually the decision makers feel themselves responsible to

00:36:15.720 --> 00:36:18.800
the city dwellers, which seems natural.

00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:23.240
But in practice they don't feel all that responsible aside from

00:36:23.240 --> 00:36:26.600
those who work there on permanent basis, because their faces

00:36:26.600 --> 00:36:28.320
actually are well recognizable.

00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:34.400
In small towns, decision makers feel more responsible in front

00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:38.600
of investors, but in large cities, it seems that they would like

00:36:38.600 --> 00:36:42.080
to cut off institutionally from this first line of contact with

00:36:42.080 --> 00:36:42.600
investors.

00:36:42.600 --> 00:36:44.160
They would rather give it to decision makers.

00:36:44.160 --> 00:36:47.720
You know we're planning expert, we don't want to deal with that.

00:36:47.720 --> 00:36:50.600
I wonder what how this will change because it might change the

00:36:50.600 --> 00:36:54.880
structure of administrative structures because now these

00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:57.680
negotiations are going to be part of special planning.

00:36:57.680 --> 00:37:03.160
So that definitely might impact the structure of so government office.

00:37:03.160 --> 00:37:06.400
Now since we're talking about structure of these departments,

00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:09.960
of these offices, one might say that the special planning require

00:37:10.680 --> 00:37:14.880
certain dialogue as part of self government structure.

00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:19.120
But from my search it stems that our work is very much independent.

00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:20.960
I was surprised by these results.

00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:24.800
So we don't really discuss solutions rather these solutions,

00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:28.760
these practices come from hands to hand even in large offices.

00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:39.120
Of course these are expert hands, but the but but the actual interdisciplinary

00:37:39.120 --> 00:37:44.760
character of offices and their size matters when a problem appears.

00:37:45.520 --> 00:37:48.480
And then it turns out that this large interdisciplinary offices

00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:50.760
have an advantage because they can deal with these problems

00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:51.400
more effectively.

00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:52.280
They know what to do.

00:37:52.720 --> 00:37:57.920
Smaller ones have trouble here, So interdisciplinary is is

00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:00.480
important, especially in crisis situations.

00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:03.440
They're all that displayed by actors and practices relations

00:38:03.440 --> 00:38:04.240
with other actors.

00:38:04.720 --> 00:38:08.400
This is our spicy topic because it dealt with personal issues.

00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:12.920
What is the relation of urbanist with local politician or or

00:38:12.920 --> 00:38:16.120
how does this politician cooperate with urban planners?

00:38:16.120 --> 00:38:21.480
Generally speaking, decision makers urbanist took strong,

00:38:21.480 --> 00:38:22.920
changeable or weak position.

00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:25.520
Strong position was usually taken by the decision maker.

00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:31.040
So the decision maker doesn't really have limits to into its

00:38:31.200 --> 00:38:32.320
decision making power.

00:38:32.600 --> 00:38:36.040
So weaker position was taken more frequently by the urbanist

00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:38.000
practitioner.

00:38:38.200 --> 00:38:39.320
He's hired, right?

00:38:39.600 --> 00:38:40.600
He or she is hired.

00:38:40.600 --> 00:38:41.880
So it's sort of natural.

00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:46.640
And most interesting was this changeable position varied position.

00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:51.880
So here the planner could make use of a certain situation where

00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:55.720
his competitions become essential to solving a problem.

00:38:55.720 --> 00:38:59.760
So in crisis situation something stop starts breaking down

00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:02.360
and then an expert appears as I know how to solve it.

00:39:02.360 --> 00:39:05.040
Just you know, don't don't stand in the way.

00:39:05.040 --> 00:39:07.840
So and here the decision is taken.

00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:10.720
Couple of quotations, role of urban increases when problems appear.

00:39:10.720 --> 00:39:13.280
That's one of the conclusions and the second Machiavellian

00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:18.160
I guess and character sometimes decisions, makers, sometimes

00:39:18.160 --> 00:39:19.640
practitioners, professionals.

00:39:19.640 --> 00:39:22.360
But you know how to you must know how to play a game.

00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:27.960
So it does sound Machiavellian, but it's food for thought.

00:39:27.960 --> 00:39:30.760
You know what sort of what sort of errors you can actually make

00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:35.120
or afford to make when you're in the process or not afford.

00:39:36.560 --> 00:39:38.320
What are the effects of these practices?

00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:39.320
There's a lot of them.

00:39:39.320 --> 00:39:42.880
So let me just concentrate on saying that the if the goal doesn't

00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:44.280
mean the effect very often.

00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:48.560
Let's say we wanted the residents to be happy, but it turned out

00:39:48.560 --> 00:39:49.880
they were not happy.

00:39:49.880 --> 00:39:53.760
That because some social participation practice did not turn out well.

00:39:54.200 --> 00:39:58.760
The second conclusion is that generally they're aimed at gaining

00:39:58.760 --> 00:40:02.880
more information data so that we can make formal decisions.

00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:08.480
That's what they're used for and so we want to saturate with knowledge

00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:11.760
in order to make sensible decisions.

00:40:12.520 --> 00:40:14.600
In a situation we have changes happening.

00:40:14.600 --> 00:40:18.200
This could be might important because we situation is much different

00:40:18.200 --> 00:40:21.320
than just a few months ago, so it could be of key importance and

00:40:21.320 --> 00:40:23.800
second interesting point, perhaps not the most important.

00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:27.320
Result migration of professionals of personnel.

00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:32.040
So understanding these informal mechanisms, very often they

00:40:32.040 --> 00:40:34.560
convince these actors to change their position.

00:40:34.560 --> 00:40:37.120
They thought I would like to have really impacting decisions,

00:40:37.120 --> 00:40:38.720
so I'll be in different place of the system.

00:40:38.720 --> 00:40:40.320
So the system has changed.

00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:44.520
So probably there will be quite a bit of of changing moves here

00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:48.840
and nearing the end changing the popularity of using this practice

00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:49.240
in time.

00:40:49.240 --> 00:40:52.480
This is probably one of the most interesting, the results for

00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:53.880
our practitioners.

00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:58.120
What I mean here that it turns out that these practices, these

00:40:58.120 --> 00:41:03.320
steps are carried out more intensively after a lot of changes

00:41:03.320 --> 00:41:03.920
in legislation.

00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:06.080
For example, we had in two thousand and fifteen when we had new

00:41:06.080 --> 00:41:09.520
acts and revitalization and we had many more activities like

00:41:09.520 --> 00:41:12.440
that being carried out Especially now after such a large change,

00:41:12.440 --> 00:41:15.880
we'll probably have more more intensity.

00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:17.120
Let me move on very quickly.

00:41:17.120 --> 00:41:17.960
I'm speeding up.

00:41:21.040 --> 00:41:27.040
So another spicy moment, negative dimension of practices.

00:41:27.040 --> 00:41:31.240
This is the specific character of the dishes, of the dark sides

00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:32.560
of the practices.

00:41:33.680 --> 00:41:35.760
So this more spicy part, as I like to call it.

00:41:36.640 --> 00:41:39.920
Well, these measures can bring surprising and negative effects,

00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:41.560
sometimes not the ones that we planned.

00:41:41.560 --> 00:41:46.520
They don't have to be taken in order to carry out the the legislative

00:41:46.520 --> 00:41:49.360
principal that is a special order development etcetera.

00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:53.040
And many threats, risks are connected with practices.

00:41:53.040 --> 00:41:55.320
This is another problem is lack of competencies.

00:41:55.360 --> 00:42:01.080
Here we have this this close circle very often the authorities

00:42:01.080 --> 00:42:05.720
don't see mistakes they make which of course ends in fiasco and

00:42:05.720 --> 00:42:06.920
she doesn't bring good effect.

00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:12.560
So but lack of competence is in the beginning, lack of ability

00:42:12.560 --> 00:42:13.680
to organize certain process.

00:42:13.680 --> 00:42:16.400
The second point is financing these practices.

00:42:17.200 --> 00:42:21.200
The danger it could be just marketing and not and not work.

00:42:21.400 --> 00:42:25.920
That's aiming towards a certain goal and the topic of of illegality

00:42:26.080 --> 00:42:27.080
of something being illegal.

00:42:27.080 --> 00:42:32.360
That is the threat of being accused of making a decision based

00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:35.920
on steps which don't stem from regulations.

00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:39.680
And they are very discouraging because why should I, you know,

00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:45.360
go not in accordance with procedures or with with what I have

00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:48.280
in paper form.

00:42:48.640 --> 00:42:49.200
So.

00:42:50.680 --> 00:42:55.040
So the contact of several governments with investors now has

00:42:55.040 --> 00:42:55.600
a certain mode.

00:42:55.600 --> 00:42:59.960
So it could be an interesting change because it does order that

00:42:59.960 --> 00:43:03.720
a little bit, OK I know I'm running out of time.

00:43:03.720 --> 00:43:12.160
So the last slide dealing with changes, it presents the sketch

00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:17.680
of changes to the last version of legislation of the one we have

00:43:17.680 --> 00:43:19.720
one, what we have in green is the procedure.

00:43:20.080 --> 00:43:23.240
And above that you have all this cloud of what we would like as

00:43:23.240 --> 00:43:26.440
professionals, as decision makers and a couple of interesting

00:43:26.440 --> 00:43:28.680
points connected with that act on planning.

00:43:28.680 --> 00:43:32.840
First of all, engaging private capital to carry out public goals.

00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:33.840
Huge problem.

00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:35.760
You can't do everything using public money.

00:43:37.200 --> 00:43:39.280
So here we have this.

00:43:39.280 --> 00:43:41.840
This is FBI instrument as we have in Poland.

00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:48.040
Also the Polish Association of Developers suggests formally

00:43:48.440 --> 00:43:51.080
that it would be good that the cell governments will prepare

00:43:51.080 --> 00:43:55.040
offer, which would show that if you want to build a residential

00:43:55.040 --> 00:43:57.680
district in that region, you would you will have to build a school

00:43:57.680 --> 00:43:58.040
too.

00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:03.640
So right away developers would know that it would cost them quite

00:44:03.640 --> 00:44:04.800
a bit if they move in.

00:44:05.640 --> 00:44:09.840
Also here we don't have a processes tools for implementing.

00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:15.920
They end with the moment of finishing up the urban cooperation

00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:16.240
agreement.

00:44:16.240 --> 00:44:17.600
There's nothing more procedurally.

00:44:17.600 --> 00:44:22.360
Another point, simple tools dealing with urban sprawl generally

00:44:23.520 --> 00:44:25.880
special plan is the tool that should be used here, the general

00:44:25.880 --> 00:44:26.520
special plan.

00:44:26.520 --> 00:44:33.040
But we will see if if the everything is going to be passed here,

00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:37.680
participation steps at the beginning of planning procedures.

00:44:37.680 --> 00:44:38.840
That has not happened.

00:44:39.320 --> 00:44:45.200
Of course participation is quite wide, but it doesn't take place

00:44:45.200 --> 00:44:49.680
right in the beginning but later on the process therefore this

00:44:49.680 --> 00:44:54.880
change did not become holding also introducing standards of

00:44:54.880 --> 00:44:57.680
distances to public services etcetera.

00:44:57.680 --> 00:45:02.840
Some of these did appear and then you act and also professionalization

00:45:02.840 --> 00:45:08.120
of the role of urban planner because previously we had no requirements

00:45:08.120 --> 00:45:13.960
of of county urban commissions which made which marginalized

00:45:13.960 --> 00:45:14.240
them.

00:45:14.560 --> 00:45:18.480
But in the new act, there is nothing about competences when it

00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:21.440
comes to those who are going to prepare special policy and county

00:45:21.440 --> 00:45:22.200
policies.

00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:26.440
Therefore, special policies don't have to be prepared by competent

00:45:26.440 --> 00:45:26.760
people.

00:45:26.760 --> 00:45:28.800
That's what comes down to of course this is probably not going

00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:33.040
to happen because counties are going to to watch what's happening

00:45:33.040 --> 00:45:38.160
here, but it's not in the act and we'll save arguments for and

00:45:38.160 --> 00:45:45.640
against codifying these informal steps for we had mostly or

00:45:45.640 --> 00:45:49.200
run planners practitioners who didn't quite believe they're

00:45:49.200 --> 00:45:50.000
going to be carried out.

00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:54.240
They're not in law and against were those who said they're going

00:45:54.240 --> 00:45:57.080
to be less flexible, more bureaucracy, more red type, we don't

00:45:57.080 --> 00:45:58.960
need more regulations etcetera.

00:45:59.560 --> 00:46:05.280
And also strong voice was heard by those voicing the needs to

00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:10.680
actually to to create a new way, whether be it evolutionary or

00:46:10.680 --> 00:46:13.040
revolutionary when it comes to changes, whether to create one

00:46:13.040 --> 00:46:18.800
big change in the act or rather evolutionary can improve it step

00:46:18.800 --> 00:46:19.360
by step.

00:46:21.080 --> 00:46:25.000
For example, the big reform here.

00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:31.720
One argument was that we'll have a reset when it comes to to

00:46:32.080 --> 00:46:35.600
to legal practices, to court decisions, etcetera, future very

00:46:35.600 --> 00:46:36.520
much sending in the way.

00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:38.200
That was one of the arguments.

00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:43.720
Besides, we've learned all the things that we don't really know.

00:46:43.720 --> 00:46:45.720
We still don't know, for example, how many urban planners there

00:46:45.720 --> 00:46:46.360
are in Poland.

00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:51.480
The last research from two thousand and fourteen After that

00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:57.560
the the Chamber of room planners was dissolved and there was

00:46:57.560 --> 00:46:58.520
about fourteen hundred back then.

00:46:58.520 --> 00:46:59.360
So we don't quite know.

00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:00.920
Maybe I should end on this note.

00:47:00.920 --> 00:47:03.160
So twenty five minutes I went overtime.

00:47:03.160 --> 00:47:04.160
Sorry, I apologize.

00:47:05.040 --> 00:47:05.680
Thank you very much.

00:47:05.680 --> 00:47:08.680
We know that the topic is hot, important and necessary.

00:47:08.720 --> 00:47:12.360
Perhaps we'll have a chance to discuss it later on or maybe an

00:47:12.360 --> 00:47:13.520
informal setting in the lobby.

00:47:13.520 --> 00:47:17.280
Now I would like to invite mister That is for the check to present

00:47:20.600 --> 00:47:22.680
Apologies, Marching Mensitski.

00:47:23.120 --> 00:47:26.400
Tell us about the sources of capital and key parameters and the

00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:27.920
investment selection process.

00:47:28.920 --> 00:47:30.120
Thank you very much.

00:47:30.680 --> 00:47:36.800
Dariush cannot really talk today, so I'm standing in for him.

00:47:37.160 --> 00:47:41.920
It is a really specialist industry conference.

00:47:41.920 --> 00:47:44.720
What we have to tell you is a quite a different story.

00:47:44.720 --> 00:47:50.600
I represent and I'm a Director at Colliers and Investment Department.

00:47:50.600 --> 00:47:56.880
Colliers is one of the key advisors in the commercial property

00:47:56.880 --> 00:48:01.560
markets globally, but we are famous for having a very strong

00:48:01.600 --> 00:48:03.120
practice here in Poland.

00:48:03.120 --> 00:48:10.040
We have great well functioning office here in tri city

00:48:10.040 --> 00:48:15.960
and it is our pleasure to observe trends that cities follow developing

00:48:16.120 --> 00:48:21.560
We like to observe how town planners and architects thing and

00:48:21.560 --> 00:48:27.200
shape the developments in the city 's investors when investing

00:48:27.200 --> 00:48:31.880
in different areas like to know the prospects for fifteen or

00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:35.560
ten years to come And of course they want to know what the prospects

00:48:35.560 --> 00:48:37.920
are for the commercial buildings as well.

00:48:38.440 --> 00:48:43.840
And financing of the investments is something that has been

00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:47.360
touched upon already and we've heard it in the previous speech

00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:51.960
and many said well, how to finance it all with the return on investment

00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:54.560
might be these are interesting technical issues.

00:48:54.720 --> 00:48:58.040
The goal of this presentation is to give you a very general overview

00:48:58.680 --> 00:49:04.720
of how private equity is present in real property, in real estate,

00:49:05.120 --> 00:49:08.280
in particular in commercial properties.

00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:09.040
What are they?

00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:11.840
They're these kinds of properties.

00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:16.400
And again, that's a simplification that can largely be considered

00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:21.200
as those that guarantee stable profit, usually from leasing

00:49:21.200 --> 00:49:21.480
out.

00:49:21.480 --> 00:49:26.520
These are office spaces, shopping malls, stores, warehouses,

00:49:27.080 --> 00:49:31.640
but also students, dormitories or some residential projects

00:49:31.640 --> 00:49:36.040
that the owner wants to be sold rather than sell.

00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:48.320
I'm going to check how this device works, OK So there is a huge

00:49:48.320 --> 00:49:53.360
area for the functioning of those commercial investments in

00:49:53.360 --> 00:50:00.000
real estate in terms of purchasing ground running, carrying

00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:04.160
out development processes and in searching for potential.

00:50:04.160 --> 00:50:10.360
But in the end all developers shape their products in such a way

00:50:11.040 --> 00:50:17.360
the end final investors searching for stable income from renting

00:50:17.640 --> 00:50:23.760
the flats of offices out can can really count on stable income.

00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:27.960
That is why all that is designed like for example offices in warehouse.

00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:32.680
So designed in such a way that the investor can, the end investor

00:50:32.680 --> 00:50:34.280
can really count on that profit.

00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:39.880
So we can say that the planning process is also impacted, affected

00:50:39.880 --> 00:50:46.920
by the goals that are envisaged by the end investor.

00:50:47.400 --> 00:50:51.080
Let's look at the situation in the Poland investment market,

00:50:51.160 --> 00:50:55.520
the record that we have been keeping ever since twenty twenty

00:50:55.560 --> 00:51:00.480
You can say that the capital has invested three hundred and fifty

00:51:01.040 --> 00:51:09.120
billion million sorry three and a half billion euro These are

00:51:09.120 --> 00:51:10.040
the investments.

00:51:10.560 --> 00:51:14.360
The scale of this investment was seventy billion euro is more

00:51:14.360 --> 00:51:21.240
or less the the annual revenue at the commercial market in germany

00:51:21.320 --> 00:51:24.040
in terms of properties of twenty years Poland has generated

00:51:24.040 --> 00:51:26.480
revenues and of course not invested resources.

00:51:26.640 --> 00:51:30.000
You would have someone buying something and then selling, withdrawing

00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:31.120
the money, that's OK too.

00:51:31.480 --> 00:51:36.800
But also there is still a lot to be done in Poland for those

00:51:37.720 --> 00:51:38.880
ten overs to run.

00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:43.040
The revenues to run now it's around six to seven billion, euro

00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:48.240
but there is a crisis So the result is slightly lower for the current

00:51:48.240 --> 00:51:51.320
here, but as you can see here in the image we show you more or less

00:51:51.320 --> 00:51:55.680
also the structure here this office, retail, industrial and

00:51:55.680 --> 00:51:56.200
other.

00:51:56.720 --> 00:52:02.720
So what is but most eagerly simple buildings that town planners

00:52:02.720 --> 00:52:03.240
don't like.

00:52:03.240 --> 00:52:06.280
So single use ones usually office.

00:52:06.880 --> 00:52:12.680
The simpler the real estate the better for them whilst mixed

00:52:12.680 --> 00:52:18.200
use with some apartments to rent some offices and some commercial

00:52:18.200 --> 00:52:22.400
services in the ground for a hard to understand the price to manage

00:52:22.680 --> 00:52:27.720
So those simplest single use projects sell best and there are

00:52:29.560 --> 00:52:33.080
there is the greatest number of those interested in that because

00:52:33.080 --> 00:52:37.560
of Suzette is in Warsaw you have a monoculture district that

00:52:37.560 --> 00:52:42.800
is only now being transformed in tri city We have the Olivia district

00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:45.440
with a number of office spaces.

00:52:45.440 --> 00:52:50.520
We'll see how it goes, but these are the basic segments of this

00:52:50.520 --> 00:52:51.160
market.

00:52:53.840 --> 00:52:58.800
forty percent of all these resources in the history have been

00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:03.840
invested in offices the other forty percent in shopping centers

00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:07.280
And what is now developing most is the warehouse market.

00:53:07.640 --> 00:53:11.680
And this is where you'll find the greatest, well, the allocation

00:53:11.680 --> 00:53:13.160
of the majority of the capital.

00:53:13.160 --> 00:53:17.080
And our published market is developing the fastest in this respect.

00:53:17.080 --> 00:53:21.400
So in building of the warehouses, offices and retail are those

00:53:21.400 --> 00:53:23.680
parts of the market that have been saturated.

00:53:23.680 --> 00:53:27.000
But you can see no limits for the development of the warehousing

00:53:27.800 --> 00:53:28.600
segment.

00:53:28.600 --> 00:53:31.760
And of course on top of that you've got all these additional functions

00:53:31.760 --> 00:53:34.560
like hotels, hotels have always been around, they have never

00:53:34.560 --> 00:53:39.920
constituted a big share, but the new formats keep developing

00:53:39.920 --> 00:53:43.760
in Poland and in Western Europe, but there are still very few

00:53:44.200 --> 00:53:45.240
ready made projects.

00:53:45.240 --> 00:53:49.440
So they do not impact the main trends as presented here and what

00:53:49.440 --> 00:53:50.000
do we have here.

00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:53.960
And now what I'm going to tell you about this is a very interesting

00:53:53.960 --> 00:54:00.120
time for us financial advisors as well because we have, we see

00:54:00.120 --> 00:54:05.520
this lowing down of investment processes, I mean the resources

00:54:05.520 --> 00:54:09.080
for commercial properties and this is a global process.

00:54:09.080 --> 00:54:13.440
So there's nothing wrong with Poland, the US and I, Western Europe,

00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:16.400
Asia Pacific, Australia, all that.

00:54:17.720 --> 00:54:23.520
The level of investments in this respect is dropping and that's

00:54:23.840 --> 00:54:27.320
an effect of investment because cost inflation, the cost of

00:54:27.320 --> 00:54:32.360
planning of investment, but also the pricing of bonds and so

00:54:32.360 --> 00:54:33.080
on and so forth.

00:54:33.080 --> 00:54:37.400
And that's something that you can that is a benchmark for return

00:54:37.400 --> 00:54:39.840
on investment into commercial properties.

00:54:41.760 --> 00:54:48.120
Poland is perhaps the only country in the world in which there

00:54:48.120 --> 00:54:54.040
is no engagement of local Polish capital or it is engaged

00:54:54.040 --> 00:55:00.520
in such a small extent in commercial properties.

00:55:00.520 --> 00:55:05.160
And that's probably a phenomenon that would require a separate

00:55:05.160 --> 00:55:05.840
presentation.

00:55:05.840 --> 00:55:11.480
But what is going on and it is also the topic of this presentation

00:55:11.880 --> 00:55:14.240
and we are to talk about sources of capital.

00:55:14.240 --> 00:55:18.360
So talking generally speaking, Generally speaking, the Polish

00:55:18.360 --> 00:55:24.240
market of commercial properties has been built by Western investors,

00:55:24.240 --> 00:55:27.520
mostly from Germany, but also the UK France, Benelux.

00:55:27.520 --> 00:55:31.840
Now you'll find more and more Scandinavian investors active.

00:55:32.280 --> 00:55:34.080
They were first in the market.

00:55:34.440 --> 00:55:37.800
They were the those who carried out the first transactions in

00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:41.960
two thousand and two still before poland joined the european

00:55:41.960 --> 00:55:43.920
union They had faith in this market.

00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:45.640
They saw a huge potential in it.

00:55:46.240 --> 00:55:50.320
Now their share is key.

00:55:51.160 --> 00:55:52.600
It is fundamental.

00:55:52.800 --> 00:55:57.480
But the proportions have changed, with Americans appearing

00:55:57.480 --> 00:56:01.600
that ever since twenty twelve have been increasingly interested

00:56:01.600 --> 00:56:05.520
in the polish market They expanded here, here in Europe, and

00:56:05.520 --> 00:56:10.080
they spent quite a lot of money in Western Europe, Poland being

00:56:10.080 --> 00:56:11.840
perceived as part of it also.

00:56:11.880 --> 00:56:17.200
So Central Europe perhaps, and their activity is markedly greater

00:56:17.200 --> 00:56:18.080
than it used to be.

00:56:18.080 --> 00:56:20.920
You can see not the darkest shade of blue here, but you can see

00:56:21.120 --> 00:56:25.240
North America represented as this medium shade of blue.

00:56:25.680 --> 00:56:29.960
Not that many investors from Canada, Asian Pacific.

00:56:31.560 --> 00:56:35.200
That capital was activated around twenty sixteen with first

00:56:35.200 --> 00:56:40.280
amazons in poland They were bought by those kinds of funds.

00:56:41.120 --> 00:56:46.200
They had a lot of free cash that was simply invested in Europe

00:56:46.440 --> 00:56:49.840
and Central European and Poland because simply it offered a

00:56:49.840 --> 00:56:52.080
greater return on investment.

00:56:52.520 --> 00:56:57.800
And then we've got Middle East Africa, so actually Middle Eastern

00:56:57.800 --> 00:57:03.040
Africa sometimes you talk of menace of North Africa, no such

00:57:03.040 --> 00:57:06.040
a case here because the majority of these resources came from

00:57:06.040 --> 00:57:07.960
the Republic of South Africa.

00:57:07.960 --> 00:57:10.640
So there was this wave of huge funds coming in.

00:57:10.640 --> 00:57:17.320
They would spend one point five or two billion euro on commercial

00:57:18.560 --> 00:57:23.800
real estate here and will they invest it out of their border of

00:57:23.800 --> 00:57:27.800
the countries going to have difficult situations back at home

00:57:28.160 --> 00:57:29.400
So that was great.

00:57:29.400 --> 00:57:34.200
And now they keep these assets, but they do not really plan any

00:57:34.200 --> 00:57:37.280
further expansion of their capital now.

00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:40.320
We mostly cooperate now with investors from Central Europe

00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:46.920
and that's owing to the fact that the Polish capital is not active

00:57:46.920 --> 00:57:49.400
in real estate at all.

00:57:52.840 --> 00:58:02.560
The bravest, the most interesting, the most active and and searching

00:58:03.320 --> 00:58:06.040
for opportunity in the post market had to be taken over by our

00:58:06.040 --> 00:58:10.560
neighbors and for some reason composed do not really invest

00:58:10.600 --> 00:58:16.600
in real estate, either private or in the form of organized capital.

00:58:16.600 --> 00:58:23.040
But the checks have at least dozens or so funds that locate resources

00:58:23.240 --> 00:58:25.160
in commercial properties.

00:58:25.360 --> 00:58:31.080
Hungarian capital keeps investing boldly in the form of sovereign

00:58:31.080 --> 00:58:32.720
funds of different kinds.

00:58:32.720 --> 00:58:38.720
We can see quiet and active participation of them in the Polish

00:58:38.720 --> 00:58:40.200
market where they can naturally grow.

00:58:40.480 --> 00:58:45.960
It is very hard to buy attractive office space in Prague and Czechia

00:58:46.200 --> 00:58:46.920
for a good price.

00:58:46.920 --> 00:58:50.760
It's far easy to do that in war so and you can count on better return.

00:58:50.960 --> 00:58:58.320
So a natural place for expansion for Czechiao well is to be found

00:58:58.320 --> 00:58:59.320
here in Poland.

00:58:59.320 --> 00:59:04.200
The same goes for Hungary for for Slovakia as well.

00:59:04.320 --> 00:59:08.040
And Polish capital does carry out a transaction from time to time.

00:59:08.040 --> 00:59:12.000
Sometimes somebody buys something but actually pose our great

00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:15.120
developers so they prepare quality products.

00:59:15.520 --> 00:59:19.840
tri city is famous for its office spaces Foreign developers

00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:24.000
find it really hard to find their ways through this market.

00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:30.120
You have Olivia have Taurus, you have Euro Style Alkan, many

00:59:30.120 --> 00:59:30.880
other investors.

00:59:30.880 --> 00:59:36.280
It is very hard for a foreign player to really become part of this

00:59:36.720 --> 00:59:40.480
game as the Polish capital is really well used here.

00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:46.360
Now the end users that accept far lower profitability and far

00:59:46.360 --> 00:59:52.680
lower return on investment, they they can really benefit here

00:59:52.680 --> 00:59:59.120
in tri city A lot is happening here, mostly in terms of office

00:59:59.120 --> 00:59:59.920
spaces as the.

01:00:00.040 --> 01:00:03.560
Commercial ones require a huge scale of investments, hundreds

01:00:03.560 --> 01:00:09.240
of millions of euros And now the investment market in tri city

01:00:09.240 --> 01:00:12.440
The first wave came about in two thousand and five to two thousand

01:00:12.440 --> 01:00:15.360
and nine where everybody would invest in regional markets But

01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:21.040
later on, after twenty fourteen or since then tri city has become

01:00:21.040 --> 01:00:24.360
a stable place for investing.

01:00:25.640 --> 01:00:28.480
Stable institutional capital invested.

01:00:28.480 --> 01:00:33.560
You see offices, spaces, retail and also warehouses.

01:00:33.560 --> 01:00:37.960
It's one of the best best spots to locate your resources.

01:00:37.960 --> 01:00:41.800
Then you've got also Crackle and Vladsworth, if not taking the

01:00:41.800 --> 01:00:43.200
capital city into account.

01:00:43.840 --> 01:00:49.440
Still there is a big stock of office space and actually Vladsworth

01:00:49.440 --> 01:00:52.040
is one of good best markets.

01:00:52.040 --> 01:00:56.120
But here in tri city you have investors who already enjoy being

01:00:56.120 --> 01:00:58.800
here got a great environment you've got the beach you've got

01:00:58.800 --> 01:01:01.800
some All the lifestyle here is something that acts as a magnet

01:01:01.800 --> 01:01:06.720
that brings here together the leaseholders but also investors.

01:01:06.720 --> 01:01:10.520
Now what is going to happen in real estate?

01:01:10.520 --> 01:01:11.520
No, very briefly.

01:01:12.040 --> 01:01:14.960
Well, now there is a downturn in the market.

01:01:14.960 --> 01:01:19.120
Generally speaking, colleagues of mine are sad, have little to do.

01:01:19.120 --> 01:01:22.760
We deal with transactions, so we need to have the will on the part

01:01:22.760 --> 01:01:23.840
of the buyer, the seller.

01:01:23.840 --> 01:01:27.160
Then we have a transaction after they have come to terms with

01:01:27.160 --> 01:01:27.680
one another.

01:01:27.680 --> 01:01:30.560
Now the buyers want to buy new prices.

01:01:30.560 --> 01:01:33.240
There is a high cost of inflation, new cost of credits where the

01:01:33.240 --> 01:01:36.960
sellers would like to keep it the way it used to be prior to twenty

01:01:36.960 --> 01:01:40.400
nineteen when credits were cheap So basically speaking, between

01:01:40.400 --> 01:01:44.240
the buying and the selling party, when the price cannot be negotiated,

01:01:44.240 --> 01:01:46.840
a little can really happen.

01:01:47.400 --> 01:01:50.840
And this is something that we experienced last year already,

01:01:51.280 --> 01:01:54.280
but this is something that you'll see in a global scale as well.

01:01:55.520 --> 01:02:00.400
Now Poland since the beginning of the year has been affected

01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:01.840
by the global situation as well.

01:02:01.840 --> 01:02:05.880
Nobody expects it to unblock in the first quarter of the coming

01:02:05.880 --> 01:02:10.080
year, probably towards the end of it searching for equilibrium.

01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:11.720
It's called price discovery.

01:02:11.720 --> 01:02:14.040
This is something that is happening now.

01:02:14.040 --> 01:02:19.080
There is a lot of money to be invested in in real estate.

01:02:19.200 --> 01:02:23.520
The rules of functioning of the market have changed.

01:02:23.520 --> 01:02:24.640
There is stress now.

01:02:25.560 --> 01:02:27.120
So it has to settle.

01:02:27.720 --> 01:02:34.040
It will take some time and generally speaking, there are many

01:02:34.040 --> 01:02:37.200
investors who say, oh, we will not invest in offices anymore

01:02:37.200 --> 01:02:42.520
because in the US there are huge vacancies.

01:02:42.520 --> 01:02:44.640
Everybody keeps working from home.

01:02:44.640 --> 01:02:48.240
Now Central Europe is back to the office system.

01:02:48.240 --> 01:02:50.400
It's quite a different set up.

01:02:50.400 --> 01:02:54.960
Hybrid work has become an option but still a lot of office space

01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:59.320
is rented by the leaseholders and the the the functioning, the

01:02:59.320 --> 01:03:02.680
philosophy of using office spaces is changing.

01:03:02.680 --> 01:03:06.640
But clearly this market is is live and kicking.

01:03:06.640 --> 01:03:12.200
The data from this market is solid and this this shadow of what

01:03:12.200 --> 01:03:14.880
is happening in the American market.

01:03:15.320 --> 01:03:19.800
It's discouraging for investors, but well, the US after all

01:03:20.400 --> 01:03:22.840
has to be considered as a as a trend setter.

01:03:22.840 --> 01:03:24.560
But still there is a local flavour here.

01:03:25.200 --> 01:03:32.000
Now the the market is in the commerce of retail, it's back on track,

01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:35.880
but everybody is afraid of what the future holds.

01:03:35.880 --> 01:03:39.400
It's easy to buy a shopping mall, it's hard to sell it.

01:03:39.960 --> 01:03:48.000
So hope for us is in the warehousing market that keeps on developing

01:03:48.400 --> 01:03:51.240
unshaken despite of the difficulties with tri city being on

01:03:51.240 --> 01:03:54.080
the lead here There are new experimental formats, there are

01:03:54.160 --> 01:04:00.680
new self storage student houses or hotels, but this is just marginal.

01:04:01.120 --> 01:04:05.320
So it's mostly warehouses that we see opportunities in.

01:04:05.320 --> 01:04:08.800
Part of the topic is about the basic investment criteria.

01:04:08.800 --> 01:04:12.440
Profitability of course is here at the forefront.

01:04:12.440 --> 01:04:16.840
So if an office buildings, an asset brings a million of euro a

01:04:16.960 --> 01:04:22.840
year net, then if somebody buys this for ten million then profitability

01:04:22.840 --> 01:04:25.720
is ten percent and if they buy it for twenty million profitability

01:04:25.720 --> 01:04:30.680
is five percent right So that's how the prices are shaped in commercial

01:04:31.400 --> 01:04:37.880
real estate market and they always are in this range of how you

01:04:37.880 --> 01:04:39.840
can locate your assets safer.

01:04:39.840 --> 01:04:47.080
So you can buy state bonds and this risk of investing, we can have

01:04:47.080 --> 01:04:52.720
your tenant going bankrupt for example or every estate can get

01:04:52.720 --> 01:04:56.400
on fire or maybe no one will want to buy that from us.

01:04:56.400 --> 01:05:03.880
So this, this, this bonus you get from it going to the risk.

01:05:03.880 --> 01:05:07.560
Well we can say that basically speaking now the prices of prime

01:05:08.040 --> 01:05:12.320
commercial properties will still have has to catch up for this

01:05:12.320 --> 01:05:17.880
gap to prevail the relatively few transactions in this area.

01:05:19.040 --> 01:05:22.680
But what is most important is that if somebody buys a property

01:05:22.680 --> 01:05:27.800
that generates profit, that in any model of underwriting it

01:05:27.800 --> 01:05:33.040
is envisage that this property will generate income forever.

01:05:33.040 --> 01:05:35.160
This is how you build financial models.

01:05:36.080 --> 01:05:41.280
So the investor that buys real estate is interested in looking

01:05:41.280 --> 01:05:44.320
at it differently than city planners.

01:05:44.320 --> 01:05:51.520
So not two hundred years to go but thirty to fifty perhaps if they

01:05:51.520 --> 01:05:54.600
want to keep it in their portfolio for five ten or fifteen years

01:05:54.640 --> 01:05:59.520
even it has to be attractive for a consecutive buyer So income

01:05:59.520 --> 01:06:02.160
has to be stable, but also this liquidity in the market has to

01:06:02.160 --> 01:06:02.440
be there.

01:06:02.440 --> 01:06:05.440
If somebody buys the first office space in tri city let's say

01:06:05.440 --> 01:06:08.040
if it was twenty years ago they wouldn't know if there would be

01:06:08.040 --> 01:06:14.160
anybody else to buy it from them But once you've had fifty such

01:06:14.160 --> 01:06:19.640
transaction and a neighbouring office space was was built by

01:06:19.640 --> 01:06:23.040
a big German investment fund, then there is a chance that another

01:06:23.040 --> 01:06:26.520
German investment fund would buy a a building in the vicinity

01:06:26.520 --> 01:06:26.920
as well.

01:06:27.280 --> 01:06:29.000
So that shapes your expectations.

01:06:32.200 --> 01:06:37.000
These analysis and the stability of revenues and liquidity,

01:06:37.160 --> 01:06:38.360
they're very subjective.

01:06:38.360 --> 01:06:40.640
Of course we can model that.

01:06:41.200 --> 01:06:44.920
We can present it in the form of Excel sheets and provide arguments,

01:06:44.920 --> 01:06:47.520
but that's more the area of investors.

01:06:48.520 --> 01:06:51.920
That thing along the lines of I like, I don't like, I believe it

01:06:51.920 --> 01:06:53.040
seems to me and so on.

01:06:53.320 --> 01:06:55.040
So now a few words about Poland.

01:06:55.080 --> 01:06:59.520
Well, I'm not going to prolong it because we are about to end the

01:06:59.520 --> 01:07:00.040
session about.

01:07:00.040 --> 01:07:07.120
Poland is such a wonderful place where we can boast about

01:07:07.120 --> 01:07:09.560
a lot of things, economic growth.

01:07:10.520 --> 01:07:13.560
But from China, there is no other country in the world that would

01:07:13.760 --> 01:07:16.520
develop so dynamically over the last thirty years.

01:07:16.520 --> 01:07:20.240
This is a story that has become a household name.

01:07:20.240 --> 01:07:21.640
We can be proud of that.

01:07:21.640 --> 01:07:25.400
And this is something that investors do take into account.

01:07:25.400 --> 01:07:28.320
And of course for fifteen years they've been asking when is this

01:07:28.320 --> 01:07:29.880
development going to come to an end?

01:07:29.880 --> 01:07:34.160
Well, it can't and it has accelerated over the last years.

01:07:34.440 --> 01:07:35.840
But it is not the case.

01:07:35.840 --> 01:07:39.720
Well, for years now we haven't been the source of cheap labor

01:07:39.720 --> 01:07:40.760
for bigger neighbors.

01:07:41.040 --> 01:07:44.000
There is a very intensive development of technologies.

01:07:44.000 --> 01:07:48.960
Americans have started investing in Poland, not in some cheap

01:07:51.200 --> 01:07:54.040
what consuming processes, but advanced technologies.

01:07:54.040 --> 01:08:00.200
We have enormous pool of people working at very advanced

01:08:00.280 --> 01:08:01.840
IT related processes.

01:08:01.840 --> 01:08:05.200
We have AI specialist machine learning and so on.

01:08:05.640 --> 01:08:10.480
So there is a number of things that Poland has started to specialize

01:08:10.480 --> 01:08:17.200
in and it's seen as a hop for cutting edge technologies and only

01:08:17.200 --> 01:08:19.720
must have read about that.

01:08:19.840 --> 01:08:24.480
Intel is going to invest over four billion euro in a plant in a

01:08:24.480 --> 01:08:29.120
cycle of construction of micro chips that we've been working

01:08:29.120 --> 01:08:33.720
for waiting for for a number of years now These are data on growth,

01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:36.200
these are numbers, they are objectives.

01:08:36.200 --> 01:08:43.560
So really a lot has happened in the recent years but also we are

01:08:43.960 --> 01:08:46.920
we we enjoy high scoring in terms of the quality of work of the

01:08:46.920 --> 01:08:50.040
employees and the increase in our profitability and efficiency.

01:08:50.320 --> 01:08:54.200
Bonin is number one in terms of state of the art services for business

01:08:54.200 --> 01:08:57.400
That's something that directs investors because what do they

01:08:57.400 --> 01:08:58.280
do coming here?

01:08:58.280 --> 01:08:59.960
Well, they make use of our office spaces.

01:08:59.960 --> 01:09:03.760
That is why there is such a demand for those office spaces here.

01:09:04.520 --> 01:09:10.080
And just a word about the tri city this is one of the strongest

01:09:10.080 --> 01:09:15.080
investment markets in poland next to warsaw ratzworth krakow

01:09:16.080 --> 01:09:21.840
It is here that investors wish to invest a lot of resources been

01:09:22.120 --> 01:09:26.160
invested over a billion euro, invested in of this over a billion

01:09:26.160 --> 01:09:28.240
euro in retail.

01:09:28.240 --> 01:09:32.600
And also the logistics market is developing the entire industrial

01:09:32.600 --> 01:09:34.880
area transshipments.

01:09:34.880 --> 01:09:38.600
The increase of the significance of the ports from the commercial

01:09:38.880 --> 01:09:41.440
point of view, it is really significant and this is something

01:09:41.440 --> 01:09:43.040
that is of interest to investors.

01:09:43.320 --> 01:09:46.320
As for the development of office spaces, investors are mostly

01:09:46.320 --> 01:09:49.600
interested in whether people like to be in tri city and to live

01:09:49.600 --> 01:09:55.520
here and this lifestyle satisfactions core is pretty significant

01:09:55.520 --> 01:09:59.160
because if this works people will come and will keep coming and

01:09:59.160 --> 01:10:03.840
wanting to stay here and work in the tri city offices That's all

01:10:03.840 --> 01:10:04.840
I wanted to tell you.

01:10:04.960 --> 01:10:06.440
I hope it was interesting.

01:10:06.440 --> 01:10:09.560
I'm not sure if it was to the point, but well anyhow.

01:10:09.880 --> 01:10:13.120
These are the sources of capital and key parameters when selecting

01:10:13.120 --> 01:10:14.720
investment opportunities.

01:10:15.000 --> 01:10:16.920
We have a very strong branch office.

01:10:16.920 --> 01:10:22.840
Here is a who runs it successfully will eagerly answer your questions.

01:10:22.840 --> 01:10:26.520
If you have a super idea for running a business and you're searching

01:10:26.520 --> 01:10:28.240
for capital, you know home to turn to.

01:10:28.240 --> 01:10:29.520
Thank you very much for attention.

01:10:31.600 --> 01:10:32.680
Thank you very much.

01:10:34.040 --> 01:10:37.040
Very interesting presentation from my perspective, because

01:10:38.360 --> 01:10:42.600
any kind of interdisciplinary approach opening up another

01:10:42.600 --> 01:10:50.440
window definitely enriches us and also in the context of searching

01:10:50.440 --> 01:10:54.360
for balances for balance among various needs.

01:10:54.360 --> 01:10:59.680
So thank you very much for this different type of view on to the city.

01:10:59.680 --> 01:11:04.320
And at this point we would like to ask Thomas Schwab Pinsky to

01:11:04.680 --> 01:11:08.360
present to us the Corvin Promenade in Buddhist supposedly.

01:11:11.280 --> 01:11:12.120
Good afternoon.

01:11:12.520 --> 01:11:16.480
My name is Thomas Rapinski, I represent developer Essential

01:11:16.480 --> 01:11:17.600
developer Accordion.

01:11:18.600 --> 01:11:23.760
We are international developer from Budapest.

01:11:25.080 --> 01:11:29.000
We are carrying out projects not just in Budapest but in Poland

01:11:29.000 --> 01:11:38.200
including tri city also in warsaw krakow poznan I had the management

01:11:38.200 --> 01:11:39.120
of our Polish team.

01:11:40.200 --> 01:11:48.000
With me is Gabo Kavach who is the main architect in in of our company

01:11:48.000 --> 01:11:48.840
in Budapest.

01:11:49.520 --> 01:11:53.320
Gabor was personally involved in this largest resignation

01:11:53.320 --> 01:11:56.640
project in Centrist in Europe, which would like to tell you about

01:11:56.960 --> 01:12:03.000
this most gigantic challenge spread out over a number of years.

01:12:03.960 --> 01:12:08.760
But our company is not afraid of a big challenge.

01:12:09.200 --> 01:12:13.600
Our company, our owners in Poland, perhaps we are a bit more recognized

01:12:13.600 --> 01:12:19.400
because recently we have taken over developer Polar to which

01:12:19.400 --> 01:12:20.880
probably you've heard about.

01:12:20.880 --> 01:12:26.400
It was actually quite a bit of problem to to handle what was happening

01:12:26.400 --> 01:12:28.280
that company because they did have some problems.

01:12:28.280 --> 01:12:34.040
But right now we are continuing projects after taking over Polar.

01:12:36.480 --> 01:12:39.360
Now, a little bit about the project itself.

01:12:43.160 --> 01:12:51.640
Please notice that it's it's a district, in fact, in a very central,

01:12:52.000 --> 01:12:53.640
in a very central location.

01:12:56.880 --> 01:13:00.480
It's twenty two hectares located centrally.

01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:09.680
It used to be a very rundown district populated by sort of a Roma

01:13:10.960 --> 01:13:16.680
inhabitants who are not quite able to catch up with the development

01:13:16.680 --> 01:13:17.200
of the city.

01:13:17.200 --> 01:13:26.080
The city simply took over control to to mega district develop

01:13:26.880 --> 01:13:30.960
properly to fit within the the spirit of the city, of what was

01:13:30.960 --> 01:13:33.440
happening in the in the city at the time.

01:13:34.520 --> 01:13:41.280
As I've said the project Superman over the area of twenty two

01:13:41.280 --> 01:13:45.040
hectares, so we had over two hundred seven two two thousand seven

01:13:45.040 --> 01:13:50.680
hundred flats created five hundred thousand build up area The

01:13:50.680 --> 01:13:54.640
total value was nearly a billion euro.

01:13:56.640 --> 01:14:01.840
So as you know such investment cannot be carried out very quickly.

01:14:01.840 --> 01:14:05.600
So a lot depended here on the cooperation between the city and

01:14:05.600 --> 01:14:13.240
the investor who took on these challenges over a number of years.

01:14:13.800 --> 01:14:17.560
And here I should also say that we ended this project, in fact

01:14:17.560 --> 01:14:22.120
this year, in twenty twenty three the city the concept of what

01:14:22.120 --> 01:14:25.040
the city should look like what this district should look like

01:14:26.000 --> 01:14:30.320
it was sketched up by the city and twenty years ago in two thousand

01:14:30.320 --> 01:14:34.960
and three So it took us eighteen years to implement the projects,

01:14:34.960 --> 01:14:38.680
and that included very close cooperation between the investors

01:14:38.680 --> 01:14:39.920
and city authorities.

01:14:41.120 --> 01:14:46.400
Here we can see some images of what this promenade looks like.

01:14:48.520 --> 01:14:53.840
Definitely worth It's worthwhile to underline that this district

01:14:53.840 --> 01:14:57.320
is surrounded by very dense urban fabric.

01:14:57.320 --> 01:15:00.800
It's located between two metro stations.

01:15:02.640 --> 01:15:03.920
That's part of the project.

01:15:04.440 --> 01:15:09.880
A lot of service points were created of various functions which

01:15:09.880 --> 01:15:12.560
were selected very carefully.

01:15:13.320 --> 01:15:19.840
We have service sales points, shopping malls of our two thousand

01:15:19.840 --> 01:15:22.840
seven hundred flats as well two thousand seven hundred flats

01:15:22.840 --> 01:15:28.800
as i've mentioned before An interesting point, perhaps.

01:15:30.640 --> 01:15:36.040
Perhaps you remember this, this book, this novel from one hundred

01:15:36.040 --> 01:15:45.960
years ago by which takes place in that district So before I'm

01:15:46.720 --> 01:15:52.080
going to tour the to turn the floor over to my colleague, let me

01:15:52.080 --> 01:15:58.040
just say a few words about what the cooperation between the investor

01:15:58.040 --> 01:15:58.880
and the city looked like.

01:15:58.880 --> 01:16:03.360
As I said two thousand two thousand three the city prepared a concept.

01:16:04.040 --> 01:16:08.240
In two thousand three tender was organized.

01:16:08.240 --> 01:16:10.720
As part of it, an investor was selected.

01:16:10.720 --> 01:16:15.560
Investor in the city wanted to to cooperate with.

01:16:15.880 --> 01:16:22.360
Only in two thousand and five it was possible to sign an agreement

01:16:22.360 --> 01:16:31.760
with the city which more precisely describe the project its

01:16:31.760 --> 01:16:36.680
functions and so on and then just work on the project commenced

01:16:38.720 --> 01:16:41.840
Generally, the corporation look this way that as an investor

01:16:41.840 --> 01:16:47.640
were carried out subsequent phases stages in accordance with

01:16:47.640 --> 01:16:53.560
the requirements placed by the city, but along with finishing

01:16:53.560 --> 01:16:54.440
up stages.

01:16:54.440 --> 01:16:55.440
So we moved on.

01:16:55.800 --> 01:17:06.880
In other words, the city would sell successive lots on the which

01:17:06.880 --> 01:17:11.280
we were able to to carry out next stages after finishing previous

01:17:11.280 --> 01:17:13.840
stages in accordance with the agreement.

01:17:14.320 --> 01:17:18.760
Of course, it should be pointed out that such an large investment

01:17:18.760 --> 01:17:22.080
can be carried out only when both parties trust each other.

01:17:22.080 --> 01:17:26.800
So the investor invests successively stage after stage, knowing

01:17:26.800 --> 01:17:29.960
what the city expects in the future.

01:17:29.960 --> 01:17:36.440
So here the investment, as I've said, took eighteen years.

01:17:38.480 --> 01:17:43.000
In the meantime there were local elections.

01:17:43.000 --> 01:17:46.120
There were city authorities changed.

01:17:46.120 --> 01:17:52.880
But, and despite the fact that this of government change and

01:17:52.880 --> 01:17:57.120
various political options took over, the city was committed

01:17:57.640 --> 01:18:06.560
and determined to to develop this part of Budapest in accordance

01:18:06.560 --> 01:18:07.440
with its plans.

01:18:09.440 --> 01:18:18.520
So I've also said a few words already about whatever agreement

01:18:18.520 --> 01:18:19.200
was based on.

01:18:19.560 --> 01:18:23.120
And it's worthwhile to point out that in the meantime we had real

01:18:23.120 --> 01:18:26.720
estate crisis in two thousand and eight probably remember all

01:18:26.720 --> 01:18:33.520
this happening back then we had pandemia and of course we are

01:18:33.520 --> 01:18:40.960
used to the fact that in poland floods have lower VAT But in the

01:18:40.960 --> 01:18:44.440
Hungary it wasn't that obvious and the government used to change

01:18:44.440 --> 01:18:45.280
it up and down.

01:18:46.240 --> 01:18:51.920
As you know such changes sometimes cool the demand for floods,

01:18:51.920 --> 01:18:56.600
sometimes they bring it up and a large part of these projects

01:18:56.600 --> 01:18:58.960
were residential.

01:18:58.960 --> 01:19:03.320
So we had such situation and there was quite a bit of pressure

01:19:03.600 --> 01:19:05.920
and there was cooling down South.

01:19:08.200 --> 01:19:19.440
This necessitated ongoing agreement with the city, and in the

01:19:19.480 --> 01:19:22.840
end the project was implemented in a way that was satisfactory

01:19:22.840 --> 01:19:25.120
both for the city authorities and for us.

01:19:26.760 --> 01:19:30.920
By the way, I encourage you to visit the place and see it with your

01:19:30.920 --> 01:19:37.880
eyes, see how balanced it is as far as functions implement each

01:19:37.880 --> 01:19:39.000
other very nicely.

01:19:39.560 --> 01:19:43.400
So there is place for revitalize cinema, for theater, for many

01:19:43.400 --> 01:19:49.760
restaurants, we have shopping malls, we have commercial space,

01:19:49.760 --> 01:19:50.600
office space.

01:19:51.920 --> 01:19:55.440
And it's quite important that it's in such a balanced way that

01:19:55.440 --> 01:19:58.440
this place is full of light all the time.

01:19:58.440 --> 01:20:01.040
So it's not like, you know, weekend comes and the place is dead.

01:20:01.040 --> 01:20:03.360
No, absolutely not.

01:20:04.200 --> 01:20:05.600
So you can always take a look there.

01:20:05.600 --> 01:20:06.600
It's always interesting.

01:20:06.600 --> 01:20:10.360
It's always lively, always something interesting going on.

01:20:13.520 --> 01:20:19.280
So I invite you to visit the place during your visit to Budapest,

01:20:22.680 --> 01:20:26.160
the project and its specifics and and the structure and the functions.

01:20:27.000 --> 01:20:27.960
OK Thank you very much.

01:20:27.960 --> 01:20:31.520
And continuing in English, you can see on this plan.

01:20:33.520 --> 01:20:34.320
OK Sorry.

01:20:34.760 --> 01:20:39.320
So I'm continuing English and you can see on the plan on this slide.

01:20:40.160 --> 01:20:43.200
The plan of the Corvin Promenade project have it's embodied

01:20:43.200 --> 01:20:48.760
in the urban environment and the project is start from from the

01:20:48.760 --> 01:20:54.000
main boulevard of Budapest which is in the mark where you can

01:20:54.000 --> 01:21:00.520
see the the Corvin Cinema Theatre in orange and from this road

01:21:00.520 --> 01:21:02.720
till the end of the the project.

01:21:03.040 --> 01:21:06.000
The length total length of the project is more than eight hundred

01:21:06.000 --> 01:21:12.800
metres and the project is divided into three bigger parts Blue

01:21:12.800 --> 01:21:18.760
buildings are offices and commercial buildings which are very

01:21:18.760 --> 01:21:26.040
close to the metro stations which is next to our project and in

01:21:26.040 --> 01:21:30.480
the middle block is dedicated for residential buildings with

01:21:30.480 --> 01:21:31.720
the open core in Promenade.

01:21:36.360 --> 01:21:41.200
And there's the the first landscape concept which was designed

01:21:41.200 --> 01:21:43.000
by Roy, actors and landscape designer.

01:21:43.160 --> 01:21:49.400
And I wanted to put it on this presentation just to see that how

01:21:49.400 --> 01:21:56.080
we committed was to our master plan because almost you can see

01:21:56.080 --> 01:22:01.160
it on the on the spot right now constructed and finished everything

01:22:01.160 --> 01:22:02.400
what you can see in here.

01:22:02.600 --> 01:22:08.360
This program is thirty six meter wide and it's provided green

01:22:08.360 --> 01:22:13.240
areas pathway pedestrian waste and and terraces for the ground

01:22:13.240 --> 01:22:21.320
floor retail units The core we Promenade Open Promenade is surrounded

01:22:21.320 --> 01:22:25.880
by residential buildings mainly including two thousand and

01:22:25.880 --> 01:22:32.520
seven hundred apartments and the ground floor is street Retail

01:22:32.720 --> 01:22:38.400
has ten thousand square meter square meter services and and

01:22:38.400 --> 01:22:43.720
amenities The biggest amenity space on the Corving Promenade

01:22:44.040 --> 01:22:50.280
this Life Edge Life One Fitness and Wellness centre on three

01:22:50.280 --> 01:22:54.800
thousand square meter which in the downtown is the biggest and

01:22:54.800 --> 01:22:59.440
the only one which provide accessibility for for the swimming

01:22:59.440 --> 01:22:59.720
pool.

01:23:00.160 --> 01:23:05.240
And that Wellness and fifth centre is so successful that on the

01:23:05.600 --> 01:23:10.680
peak days more than one thousand visitors come to to do some entertainment

01:23:10.680 --> 01:23:17.680
here on the project We have finished already one hundred and

01:23:17.680 --> 01:23:25.120
thirty square metre a category offices certificated by bream

01:23:25.400 --> 01:23:29.400
including the coring technology park on thirty thousand square

01:23:29.400 --> 01:23:38.040
metre which has such a big tenants like nokia and IBM Corinne

01:23:38.040 --> 01:23:42.600
Plaza, the shopping mall that was the one of our first building

01:23:44.200 --> 01:23:49.400
which has a gross fifty thousand square meter which means almost

01:23:49.600 --> 01:23:53.400
four thirty four thousand square meter of GLA offering more

01:23:53.400 --> 01:23:59.320
than one hundred shops restaurants and other amenities on three

01:23:59.320 --> 01:24:02.520
levels and under of the building we have one thousand and two

01:24:02.520 --> 01:24:09.920
hundred parking places on other three levels Just to figure

01:24:10.280 --> 01:24:13.360
the middle, the middle columns already were were mentioned

01:24:13.880 --> 01:24:21.880
but in addition the new buildings the municipality renovated

01:24:21.880 --> 01:24:27.360
also forty six residential buildings with one thousand and

01:24:27.360 --> 01:24:33.320
four hundred apartments which were which are owned by partially

01:24:33.360 --> 01:24:37.040
with the municipality and partially with the private persons

01:24:37.680 --> 01:24:41.440
But in the beginning of the project, the municipality had to

01:24:41.600 --> 01:24:46.800
demolish more or less one hundred old buildings which were in

01:24:46.800 --> 01:24:53.160
a very very wet condition and that was that were replaced with

01:24:53.160 --> 01:24:58.720
new buildings And now there's the time to time travelling a bit

01:24:59.200 --> 01:25:03.840
back to the end of the nineties and the very beginning of the new

01:25:03.840 --> 01:25:04.440
Millennium.

01:25:04.960 --> 01:25:10.360
And you can see that that was the heart of the aid district, which

01:25:10.600 --> 01:25:14.480
part of the Budapest never was so popular.

01:25:15.000 --> 01:25:15.600
It's understood.

01:25:15.600 --> 01:25:19.480
Able I think never was totally built in.

01:25:19.480 --> 01:25:26.200
Always were many empty plots in that area and by the time the general

01:25:26.200 --> 01:25:29.040
condition of the buildings became worse and worse.

01:25:30.440 --> 01:25:37.920
So worse you can see in here that over the serious technical defects

01:25:37.920 --> 01:25:45.200
of the buildings, the other important factor to to demolish

01:25:45.200 --> 01:25:50.560
the buildings that in these buildings more than forty percent

01:25:50.560 --> 01:25:55.440
of the apartments had no private toilet or bathrooms In the apartments

01:25:55.800 --> 01:26:00.440
they used common toilets and bathrooms in the end of the corridor.

01:26:00.760 --> 01:26:06.280
In the beginning of the twenty one century the density of this

01:26:06.320 --> 01:26:08.800
area was very very low.

01:26:09.280 --> 01:26:12.960
You can see that mainly grand floor, grand floor plus one or maximum

01:26:13.640 --> 01:26:21.200
two levels building were in in in that conditions and back to

01:26:21.200 --> 01:26:28.560
the future that's our project after we finished it's totally

01:26:28.560 --> 01:26:34.880
transformed to modern new district in the city providing high

01:26:34.880 --> 01:26:41.000
level of living and workplaces with high quality services and

01:26:41.000 --> 01:26:45.600
amenities and also huge public areas.

01:26:47.080 --> 01:26:52.080
And on this picture you can see the the final result.

01:26:52.080 --> 01:26:56.320
And if you would would see would you would you have a chance to

01:26:56.320 --> 01:27:01.320
check our master plan which was prepared almost twenty years

01:27:01.320 --> 01:27:01.680
ago.

01:27:02.040 --> 01:27:07.800
You could see the same what we realised in here we had made just

01:27:07.800 --> 01:27:10.920
a very minor deviation from the master plan.

01:27:13.400 --> 01:27:17.280
We built everything what we promised on this, on this master

01:27:17.280 --> 01:27:22.800
plan and nowadays it's a very, very successful project and it's

01:27:22.800 --> 01:27:27.160
measurable because the willingness to move to the A district,

01:27:27.320 --> 01:27:31.160
it's more or less it's on fifty percent but to move to the core

01:27:31.160 --> 01:27:35.280
implemented into a district it's above eighty percent and it's

01:27:35.440 --> 01:27:41.520
significant And also the rent price, the average rent price

01:27:41.520 --> 01:27:45.280
on the on the core implemented is fifteen twenty percent higher

01:27:45.440 --> 01:27:49.080
than in the other part of the district or the neighbouring districts.

01:27:51.280 --> 01:27:58.000
With this project during the the time we won several international

01:27:58.000 --> 01:28:01.960
awards, I think the most prestigious prestigious awards was

01:28:01.960 --> 01:28:08.320
the in twenty fourteen the award for excellence which we got

01:28:08.320 --> 01:28:11.360
from the urban and institute and of course we are very proud of

01:28:11.360 --> 01:28:19.240
it And just to close my words, I would say that the the key of the

01:28:19.240 --> 01:28:24.360
success was the continuous and efficient cooperation with

01:28:24.360 --> 01:28:30.040
the municipality, the long term thinking and and of course the

01:28:30.280 --> 01:28:33.040
all of the energy and time what we put on this project together.

01:28:33.560 --> 01:28:34.240
Thank you very much.

01:28:40.640 --> 01:28:42.640
Thank you very much for this presentation.

01:28:42.960 --> 01:28:46.800
I believe that sharing different experiences also shows us

01:28:47.520 --> 01:28:52.320
where we stand, where we are heading, what kind of a lesson can

01:28:52.320 --> 01:28:52.960
be learned.

01:28:53.320 --> 01:28:57.600
It's always worthwhile to exchange experiences for now we have

01:28:57.600 --> 01:29:01.040
found a discussion, but we believe that we can also hold it over

01:29:01.040 --> 01:29:01.360
coffee.

01:29:01.360 --> 01:29:05.400
It will be much more pleasant and possibly also much more fruitful.

01:29:07.040 --> 01:29:12.040
So if we wish to address certain topics such upon the speakers,

01:29:12.040 --> 01:29:14.480
we can do that over coffee.

01:29:14.680 --> 01:29:19.160
So I would like to invite you to Coffee break and afterwards to

01:29:19.160 --> 01:29:21.680
the last but very promising session.